.jpg)
By A. Lee Graham
Mike Mangini hits stuff.
By his own admission, the drum virtuoso enjoys bashing and thrashing. Of course, the former Berklee College of Music professor prefers 7/8, 5/8 or similarly eclectic time signatures to standard meter.
It’s been that way since he first discovered drumming as a two-and-a-half-year-old boy. Stints with Steve Vai, Extreme, Annihilator and Dream Theater saw the formidable timekeeper push his already prodigious chops year after year.
Mangini’s talents impressed Zack Zalon so much that the musician and digital agency owner sought his skills for Into the Great Divide, a newly released instrumental recording that’s a cut above the usual shred fest.
Instead of showcasing guitar and drums with no rhyme or reason, Zalon composed a narrative based on author Joseph Campbell’s hero myth story, Hero with a Thousand Faces. Hiring storyteller Larry Davis to narrate the saga and Mangini to lay its foundation, Zalon, co-founding business developer for We See Dragons, handled all guitar and keyboard tracks.
The finished product shines. Neither a prog metal album nor book on tape, Into the Great Divide takes listeners on an aural journey, with each chapter divided by narration. The approach splits the difference between music and a movie for the mind.
Having completed the recent G3 tour as Dream Theater guitarist John Petrucci’s drummer, alongside Joe Satriani and Phil Collen, Mangini explained the concept to Classic Rock Revisited while divulging plans for solo and Dream Theater albums.
Lee: Hi, Mike?
Mike: That’s me (laughs). Hi, how are you?
Lee: Just great. Thanks for taking time to chat. First of all, congrats on the new album. It’s quite an ambitious endeavor. How did you get involved?
Mike: The man behind the scenes asked me.
Lee: That would be Zack?
Mike: Yes, Zack was apparently asking the producer Rich Chycki what would Mike play here or there? Rich, having worked with me [in Dream Theater, where Chycki serves as mixer-sound engineer] said why don’t you just call him?
Lee: The connection came in handy.
Mike: That’s what happened. He expressed interest and Rich contacted me.
Lee: Had Zack and Rich worked together before?
Mike: No. What I believe happened is Zack sought out Rich and contacted him and this is the first and only time they’ve done any music together.
Lee: You’re obviously familiar with Rich, having worked with him on several Dream Theater albums in an engineering capacity. But what does he bring to the table as far as being a producer?
Mike: With Dream Theater, John Petrucci is the producer and Rich is the engineer.
Lee: That’s why I asked what Rich offered in a producer’s role.
Mike: Rich always has great ideas, but he was not in that position [as producer with Dream Theater.] The producer directs the musical direction, final sounds on the album and things of that nature.
Lee: Exactly. Let’s discuss your drumming. I’m not nearly as trained as you guys, but when I hear your drum sound on Into the Great Divide, it seems less compressed and more open than much of your studio work with Dream Theater.
Mike: I don’t have all the specs on that, but I do know that there’s a difference. That’s due to production. I’ve been asked about drum sounds and I know about the surface of the room, the this and the that, how the room affects things, but the producer’s signature is on the final product.
Lee: How was Into the Great Divide recorded? Did you guys trade files or record in the same room?
Mike: I actually tracked by myself and showed up with only some notes, having gone through the songs. Because I had the demos, I was able to write out the song forms and write down ideas. I pretty much showed up like I did for the last Dream Theater albums and I learned on the spot once I got behind the kit. I tried something and if it worked, we moved on and if it didn’t, we tried something else.
Lee: Did you record alone?
Mike. Yes. Zack was very, very, very good. He hired Rich as producer and engineer and hired me for drums. He had really great ideas. When I played something kind of off track of what he conceived, he’d say something. But it was me alone almost like a guinea pig in there. And Rich took care of everything post-my hitting.
Lee: Did you track your parts first?
Mike: Zack had bass, guitar and keyboards mostly finished. And I played to existing tracks, just went in there and played the drums.
Lee: You’re no stranger to ambitious projects, Dream Theater’s The Astonishing being the most obvious example. But how does recording a double-disc prog rock musical compare to putting a Joseph Campbell hero myth narrative to music?
Mike: i just kind of stick more to the simple things. I hit things and throughout my career, I have pretty much been used as someone who plays to pre-existing music. The self-titled Dream Theater album was different where we worked on things together; however, pretty much I am in a position where someone else is in control. I show up, play the drums and get in and get out. That’s the way it’s been with two of the three Dream Theater albums and Into the Great Divide. Someone had the vision for it and respected me. I understood my role. What I’m trying to do in answering your question is to say there is no difference to me. I just show up and put as much of my signature on it as I can.
Lee: It almost sounds like you’re describing yourself as a session player.
Mike: I just show up and play drums to existing music. I have no part of whatever someone hears. The bottom line, from Annihilator to Extreme through to Steve Vai, side projects with [Dream Theater vocalist James] LaBrie, and now another project with Zack, produces a different end result on all these things. That is how it works. But I am writing my own music and producing my solo album that will sound different than any of these other things.
Lee: You say your role is hitting things. As a listener yourself, what was your reaction when Zack revealed this concept piece? The project is a bit unusual.
Mike: It is unusual. My reaction was to immediately, as with anything, I want to know what it is, what is the final vision? I didn’t get what was fully happening until I finished the drums. My bottom line was since this is another kind of concept-esque kind of thing, what can I do to reflect that kind of thing on the drums? Perhaps do reprises, as it were, do sections that weren’t exactly the same but were different enough. For example, I said I want to sound similar throughout the whole thing, to get …
Lee: Continuity?
Mike: Yeah. Let’s say there’s a syncopated double-bass drum part. Let’s say there’s a call for that. What I do is, since I had musicians to listen to going in, I take notes on where all the double-bass sections are with figures, with these riffs going on throughout. Which ones do I want to follow exactly? Where do I want to lay off? I won’t match it exactly with my feet. I might change the fourth bar, for example. I come up with some kind of protocol where there’s a thread throughout the record. But I don’t want to play the same beat every single time, like straight 16th notes with my feet every time. But I want to reflect that vibe, so I’ll pick and choose my battles, or my rhythms.
Lee: Just by the nature of the sounds and the drama, you help create new battles, too, or drum battles, so to speak.
Mike: That’s pretty much it.
Lee: Is that your approach for any concept project?
Mike: Yeah, the closest thing I can relate to is The Astonishing. John [Petrucci] sent me instrumental tracks so I could jam to it and make notes and song form outlines. I did that, improvising the entire record. John just let me go crazy and chimed in when I didn’t understand what I was really playing to, but for the most part, it was improvised on the recording. I didn’t improvise so much on Into the Great Divide, although a chunk of it was constructed sitting behind the drums.
Lee: Was there any time during the recording of Into the Great Divide that anyone thought the voice narrative was interrupting the song flow? Any questions as where that broke up the momentum or the drama?
Mike: Well, I’ll tell you I wasn’t involved or aware of what it would be. To be honest, Zack and Rich kind of morphed that and only they knew there would be something said and verbal or narration in between (pause). Sorry, I woke up up a bit late today. I’m all over the place. No meal yet and I haven’t had my coffee. You can fix my grammar if you want.
Lee: No, no, you’re fine. You’d definitely lucid! I can imagine sleep is just slightly important to recovery after a long performance. I saw you on G3 in Dallas a few weeks ago and for several The Astonishing shows, and I know how hard you work up there.
Mike: Wow.
Lee: I’m a fan. What can I say? I realize you guys are extremely busy, but any chance of taking Into the Great Divide out on the road? Or even for a few select dates?
Mike: That’s not even on the radar. I was hired to make a product, and that’s what I did. I don’t know of any even remote plan to do anything like that.
Lee: So what is on the radar?
Mike: Dream Theater’s on the radar and I’m releasing a solo album, so that’s on the radar.
Lee: To whom do you think Into the Great Divide will appeal? Does it have broader appeal than your average prog fan?
Mike: It’s a prog project. It was designed that way. One of the things that makes prog what it is is the nature of what a listener can process. In other words, if anyone and everyone can listen to prog music the way they listen to pop music, then prog would be popular.
But prog is not in the pop genre of the diva singers. So clearly prog rock is not in that [category], but the difference between the two is the listener, in the brain. There’s an area of the brain … and no one in the world shows up with that area prewired. Nobody. MIT did a study on this and they proved it. For all intents and purposes, this area is not prewired. This is the area dealing with polyrhythms. The thing is, prog music, it takes work to listen to it. A lot of people do not like music to take work. They just like to sit and listen, yell and scream and dance and move onto the next thing.
Lee: They want a passive, easy experience.
Mike: A person that’s into prog rock has earned the privilege of enjoying it. People who won’t break down music have not earned the privilege of listening to it. People say it hurts my brain regarding prog music. You have to do the work to earn the privilege.
People say this is musical, that’s not musical. It depends on the processing power of the brain listening to it. You need to process what you have an opinion on first. It’s like any one of us having an opinion on social media and the quickness of the Internet. People think they can become instant experts on politics, religion, etc., but I doubt most people can take a simple quiz on it. With the Internet, people can say anything they want with no authority.
Lee: Many people say they’re an authority online because they say they’re an authority. Everyone has an opinion. That’s great, but not everyone’s opinion is informed. Would you agree?
Mike: I know. It’s not that it’s a bad thing. There was a day back with the old Greeks, the entire society. It was enriching to learn something before you opened your mouth. One positive reason I think there is hope is their heart must tell them when they read things that they know are awful, uneducated, mean, ignorant. And their heart also must tell them when they see a really put-together, educated comment. It’s that hope that will educate us all.
Very well-spoken, very well-put together comments are good, but if we had no outlet for these comments, we wouldn’t see them. A lot of times, the human heart is not in the right place. People can get so offended now. Some politics have become religion.
Lee: I hear you. We could really go down the rabbit hole on this topic, let’s go back to your solo album. Tell us about it.
Mike: Yes, I’ve been writing. I’m collecting material, putting together a database.
Lee: What can Mike Mangini fans expect from your solo album? Any guest appearances?
Mike: I’m collecting ideas right now. The songwriting is all me. As far as sitting behind a computer and arranging all the instruments, that’s all me. I’m going to put this thing together sos that when it moves forward, if nothing else, at least it’s cohesive. This is pertinent to the discussion of Into the Great Divide. By me doing that, it gives me a respect for people who put together a collection of music like Zack did with Into the Great Divide, like John did for The Astonishing, like Vai did for his music.
It gives you a profound respect for people who did this because it’s a lot of work and it takes courage.
Lee: In closing, is there anything you’d like to tell your fans, Mike?
Mike: Just thank you for enjoying what I do and also for understanding and digging into the different roles I’ve had with my career. It’s a really good vibe all the way around and I want to let the fans know that. I am extra thankful when they actually understand what my role is and what my role is not. I’m truly grateful for everything and everyone.
